Our special guest Demetra George celebrates the release of her new book Ancient Astrology, Volume 2. We discuss the integration of traditional techniques into a modern framework, the meaning of “planetary condition”, and the use of houses and house rulership.
Podcast Transcript
Tony Howard: This is the Astrology University podcast helping you find inspiration, insight and connection through the study of astrology and I’m your host, Tony Howard. Well, hello friends, and welcome to this special episode of the Astrology University podcast. We are very blessed to have Demetra George with us today as our special guest speaker. Thanks for joining me today, Demetra.
Demetra George: Always. It’s a pleasure.
Tony: And we’re both really excited, I know. Demetra is feeling excited and relief and a number of other emotions, I’m sure, at the completion of the second volume of Ancient Astrology in Theory and Practice. So she’s just finished this book, volume two – A Manual of Traditional Techniques. And essentially, this book is continuing what she started in volume one with more of a focus on the houses. And it’s a monumental work. And I know that you’re feeling relief, but it’s a work you should be very, very proud of. And it’s a massive contribution to astrology, and especially in honor of our rich tradition and history. So thank you on behalf of all of us for putting this together for us. So Demetra, I thought maybe we could just start today by telling folks a little bit about how these two volumes came to be for you.
Demetra: Well, I connected with the very beginning of Project Hindsight in 1993, with the excitement of our entire community. The idea that we always knew that astrologers had an ancient tradition, but we really had hardly any idea whatsoever what exactly it was, or what it consisted of. And then the revelation that these texts were not only available, but that members within our own community undertook the commitment to bring them into English translation. And for many of them, it was the first time in 2000 years that we actually knew what kind of astrology happened at the very beginning of the Western tradition, that now we have inherited is our own practice. So the community as a whole was very excited, including me. And then circumstances came about that, with the beginnings of Kepler College in 2000, I had the opportunity to offer a course in Hellenistic astrology to the Kepler students that was supervised by Robert Schmidt. And I taught that until 2006, and after having had several years of teaching it four or five years, I had the rudiments of a book, a series of class notes and lessons that I thought would be beneficial to the larger community as a whole. And it was sometime in 2006 or 2007, I thought, oh, this should be turned into a book. And then, again, initially I wanted it to be a very simple book, to make it usable for beginning students. But as I tried to simplify, it was a problem because I was eliminating the richness of the tradition and all of the nuances and just stripping all of that out. And I thought like that was so sad that I was putting in all this effort, but that this material that was most fascinating and important, I was making decisions to edit out. So then it just kept getting bigger. And it took increasingly longer to assemble in a way that felt complete, certainly not complete for the whole tradition of Hellenistic astrology, but to give our community a framework and a foundation to begin to glean what was part of an earlier tradition, that still had great value and meaning in today’s world to be applied and to be used.
Tony: Wonderful. I’ve been working with you for many years to produce a series of workshops on this material. And the material kind of follows a set of three main courses, the first of which focuses on planetary condition, the second on the houses and then the third on timing. The first in those first two courses kind of sync up with these two books right so that the first course in the series with its focus on planetary condition is an extension of the first book in the first volume in a series. For our listeners who don’t know what that phrase might mean to you, can you tell folks what you mean when you say planetary condition?
Demetra: Yes, each planet has a certain set of its own significations, Venus being intimacy and relationships and bringing peace and harmony into one’s environment and beauty in the arts. And each of the planets have their own sphere like that. Venus can manifest in ways that are more in a person’s best interests or less in a person’s best interests. And from an astrological point of view, that is based on the planet’s planetary condition. And that means depending on what sect it belongs to the day or night sect, whether it’s in a sign in which it has access to the kinds of resources that enhance its own nature or not, whether or not it’s too close to the Sun and overshadowed by other planets, whether or not it’s moving direct in a forward direction or backtracking in a retrograde direction, whether or not it’s been supported by favorable aspects from Venus and Jupiter or there are obstacles being put in the way by unfavorable aspects from Mars and Saturn. All of those factors impact whether the planet expresses as a positive range of its significations or the more problematical range of its significations. And that that is valuable information for astrologers, and particularly for a counseling astrologer to have a sense of how is this planet left on its own devices working out for this individual. Is it helping them? Or is it putting up roadblocks in their happiness? And with our modern astrology, we tend to put the onus or the burden on the person themselves. Well, it’s your fault, that you don’t have positive relationships, it’s something that you’re doing wrong. And if your visualization and your freewill is strong enough, you can overcome this. And oftentimes people who are having problems in a certain area and receive astrological guidance that if they just tried harder, this area of life would work out for them. The Hellenistic point of view shows the astrologer that the difficulties are hardwired into the individual, it doesn’t mean that they’re insurmountable or they can’t be changed. But there may be a different kind of approach that’s necessary, and helping the person develop awareness and consciousness, therapeutic help in making something work better for them than it has left to its own devices. And ultimately, what many people may seem see as a fatalistic point of view is actually more compassionate. And the astrologer saying, yes, I can see you really do have a problem here. And let’s see what can be done about it is acknowledging that. So this is what the planetary condition enables the modern astrologer whose aim is the healing of the soul to better be able to facilitate with their clients.
Tony: Thanks for that Demetra. And as we move toward the second volume of the book, as you focus on the houses, one of the things that makes this book such a wonderful resource for modern astrologers, through the whole first section of the book, you take folks through the history of meaning, with each of the houses from way, way back to the Hellenistic era, which is your focus, but you also draw the meaning forward into our current times, and you’ve traced the progression of meaning through each of the houses, bringing it into the modern era. And it makes me think about what you were just saying, with this set of techniques that we’re incorporating into our modern work. And as a modern astrologer yourself, you went through a phase of wrestling with how do I incorporate these techniques that I’m learning about into my own practice and how I see astrology and its value? So I know the answer to this would be quite long, but I wonder if you could just share a few tips for folks out there who are just getting into this material, maybe as a result of reading your books, and they’re wondering how do I how do I start weaving some of this into my modern astrological practice?
Demetra: It’s interesting, I just received an email from a reader who is starting out on their astrological career asking that very same question. I said that I don’t want to call it black and white view that Hellenistic astrology gives you. But a clear definition of whether a planet is working well or is having problems, that this is information for you as an astrologer, to get a grounding of what the chart itself on its own actually indicates, based upon established astrological principles, they have been practiced and passed on for 1800 years before the modern era. But the moment you’re with another person, with their chart in front of you, whether it’s in a professional context, or a friendly context, whatever, you cease becoming that astrologer and you become a counselor. And that information is for you, as I said before, to better be able to frame it in ways that ultimately will be realistic for the individual will not over inflate expectations, and in ways that can be of benefit and healing for them. And sometimes when I teach, I make a distinction, like, now I’m talking to you, as a teacher to a student and telling you what you’re looking for. But the moment you have the chart of a real person who’s looking for understanding from you, you absolutely switch gears from the astrologer to the counselor, and that the way you present the material is not necessarily a sort of stark, oh, this is good, bad or this is favorable or unfavorable. But you have to retranslate it again, through a healing lens. And that’s how I go about the process of using the traditional to build my own understanding and foundation, and then all of the modern techniques of compassion and understanding for bringing the individual from a state of distress to a state of balance and harmony with a vision of meaning and purpose of their life going forward.
Tony: Thanks for that Demetra. So it sounds like some people make the mistake of thinking with Hellenistic astrology that certain folks are advocating that we ditch all of our modern knowledge and return to this old way in as much as we can reconstruct it. But it sounds like from what you’ve just shared that you’re saying don’t ditch your interest in healing and helping and practice of astrology as a helping healing profession. And don’t ditch everything you know, about psychology that we’ve learned in the last many years. And then how do I weave this in as a technique, because it is something that was this reflects a set of techniques that was, in some cases, techniques that were lost to the tradition, and then, and then in some cases things were just lost in translation, which is a whole other conversation. But getting back to the to the book, the first section focuses on illuminating the meaning of the houses themselves. And then the second section goes into putting planets in houses, can you tell people a little bit about what to expect in that section?
Demetra: I can, and I’ve tried to develop a template for giving a full interpretation of how planets with their condition, then there’s a term that floats around in the traditional text that planets celestial condition, how it is in the sky on that day for everyone, more or less. And its terrestrial condition, based upon the time of day you were born, that planet falls in a particular house. And the houses represent the actual areas of life experiences that we encounter, living in bodies on the earth. And that’s why there’s a whole section of the book on the houses called Down to Earth, bringing the celestial condition down into everyday life, and how we affect that transition. And so first of all, houses have their own condition in terms of the more favorable topics of life that they designate, and the more difficult topics of life and if we look at life, it isn’t all happiness and roses. There’s illness and sorrows and suffering and a host of more challenging topics and if you have planets that and those houses represent those very real experiences that we as human beings may encounter in the course of our lives. And in modern astrology we have the notion of aspects, which involves two planets in relationship to one another. But the ancient view is that planets cast their rays, which are emanations of their nature. And planets can cast their rays into houses, as well as to other planets. So a house based on planets that aspect to it either as getting beneficial health and making difficult topics, mitigating them to be not so bad, or taking favorable topics and showing there are unseen influences that may be some blocks or resistances, to the realization of things like children or career or relationship working out in the best way.
So first of all, you’re looking at the house on its own, then you’re taking the planet with its condition and putting it in a house. And that the planet has to use the topics of the house that it’s in, in order to bring forth its own agenda. And so if you have Mercury in the second house, Mercury has to use the topics of making money, in order to bring forth its own significations, let’s say of communication or travel. Like it has to do it through generating substance to support itself. And its condition will indicate whether it can do so easily or whether it has challenges in doing that. And that’s where the condition comes in. And then Mercury may also will also rule other houses in the chart, wherever Gemini or Virgo is. And let’s say it rules the fifth house, which is children or the arts, the houses a planet rules. That planet has responsibility for those topics, as well as those houses impact or motivate the activity of Mercury. So Mercury ruling the fifth, Mercury is making money because it’s responsible for children that it has, or the children are the motivating factor for why Mercury has to make money. Or if the fifth house is the arts, that person needs their artistic talents to generate support mechanisms to sustain their life. So you have to bring in the connections of the house that rules. And then we look at a planet’s domicile lord or ruler, because Mercury might be in problematical condition. But if it has a ruler that is strong and well placed and sending a trine to it, then it gets help from outside sources and indicates the long-term prognosis. And then finally, we look at the different ways in which what we call the benefics and malefics are Venus, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn, how based on their condition, they impact how the topic of the house itself turns out. So people say, especially in earlier times, will relationships work out for me, will I have a good, fortunate marriage? Will the topic of children work out? Will I have children? Will the topic of profession work out? Will I connect with a career path that will be fortunate and I’ll be good at? And so we can also switch the focus to not only what a planet in the house means, but how this house itself what it represents will eventuate over the course of a person’s life. So I’ve created a whole workbook session section that takes one step by step through this process of assembling and then integrating the various pieces to create a complete interpretation that accounts for all of the nuances and factors that are involved in the final judgment.
Tony: Thanks Demetra. Can you tell folks a little bit more about those sections, the workbook sections of the book and what you think students might find most practical or useful to work with that comes out of the book?
Demetra: I think for the beginning student or the intermediate student, the section on the houses will be most useful to have essays on the broad meanings of the houses and then how to actually work with them. And I understand there are many newer and younger astrologers who have been caught up with the Hellenistic fascination. And the last part of the book is what is termed Rulers of the Nativity. And it’s the idea that certain planets not only govern the houses they’re in and they rule, but they have a more global role in the life of managing broader topics of overall happiness and prosperity and well-being, as well as lifeforce vitality, and then ultimately, the sort of destiny or the spiritual direction of the life. So some planets are doing additional responsibilities. And it’s useful to know what planets are carrying these heavier loads. And sometimes it may be spread out among five different planets. And sometimes, because of the way the techniques work, it’s only one or two planets, so they’re shouldering the entire responsibility of the life. And when you know what that planet is, then helps you focus on what’s going on with that planet. And how can I understand its challenges as well as really tap into the resources and positive potentialities of that planet? Because it’s not only doing a job in the house, but it’s also covering huge other swaths of my life.
Tony: Beautiful, thanks for that. Well, one thing I’ll say, if you have not seen this book, it is it’s quite large. So be prepared to put in a little bit of effort, but it is quite worth it. Demetra has created this for the whole community, in these two books, a resource that I’m sure folks will rely on for many years to come. So on behalf of the community, I just want to say thank you, again, Demetra. We just wrapped up the last of the set of three workshops that you’ve gone through a couple of times now. This is potentially your last in person teaching of that particular material. And I just wanted to say as we wrap up today’s call, just to invoke a little bit of that beautiful energy that we had during the event, on the last day people shared the impact that your teachings have had on them in their life. And it was just a beautiful moment. And just again, want to kind of honor you for the impact that you’ve made on the community and on individuals in their study and practice of astrology and in their life. And some beautiful things were shared. It just so happened we had that retreat…
Demetra: While the book actually was published and came out. It was wonderful have those two things converge because it was not planned.
Tony: Yeah, it’s amazing how when you get out of the way life kind of just works out like that. As much as we try to use astrology to control everything, sometimes we have these days where it’s just like, I couldn’t have planned that any better for today’s transits. So yeah, we do need to get out of the way sometimes. But anyway, I just wanted to thank you again, and invoke a little bit of that gratitude energy. And for those of you listening, you are in for a treat. If you haven’t come across these books yet, I hope you take some time to check them out. Again, you know, Demetra has a lot of reverence for our tradition and history. And that really comes through in your work. So thanks for that.
Demetra: Right. And my hope is that, as I’ve often said, we’re all living links in the chain of passing on the astrological condition. And at the time lord retreat, we spoke a lot about the concept of a planet, one planet handing over rulership of the times to another planet that then took over the rulership. And I’m hoping with these two books that handed over these teachings, and now, other people in the community who have many more years ahead of them, will take them over and utilize them and develop them further. And in some ways, we’ve only scratched the surface of what’s contained in all of the texts and that work is out there, waiting and eager for all of you to embrace it.
Tony: Beautiful. Thanks for taking some time to chat with me today. Demetra and I look forward to talking to you again too.
Demetra: Likewise.
Tony: Thanks for tuning in to the Astrology University podcast. Study astrology online with some of the great astrologers of our time at www.astrologyuniversity.com where we offer webinars, online classes and virtual summits to bring you inspiration, connection and insight through the study of astrology. Take good care, and we’ll see you next time.
