Jason Holley joins Alejo Lopez to chat about Libra Season and the month ahead. Includes a look at classic Libras Charly Garcia (Argentinian musician) and Gandhi.
Jason and Alejo also discussed the monthly lunations and eclipses, Mars in Libra opposite Chiron in Aries, Venus in Leo square Uranus in Taurus, a kite formation between Mercury and the Minor Grand Trine: Pluto in Capricorn trine Uranus in Taurus, all sextile to Neptune in Pisces; and Venus entering Virgo and opposing Saturn in Pisces.
- Learn how to interpret aspect patterns like the kite: Understanding Complex Aspect Patterns
- Expand your understanding of the Libra archetype in myth
Time Stamps for the topics covered in this episode:
0:00-4:38 Introduction to Libra Season
4:38-12:51 Classic Libra: Ghandi, Charlie Garcia
12:51-22:20 Things to do in Libra Season
22:20-58:43 Astrology of Libra Season
58:43-1:05:01 Monthly Mantra & Wrap Up
Transcript for The Cosmic Eye — Libra Season Episode
Alejo Lopez: Welcome to The Cosmic Eye, the Astrology University podcast. We will be looking at the month ahead and the challenges and opportunities that are coming. This is the podcast for the Libra season. I’m Alejo Lopez, your host, and today with me is Jason Holley. Jason needs little introduction as he often tutors at Astrology University and is a practicing astrologer and psychotherapist. His approach to astrology is relational and archetypical. Hi Jason, welcome.
Jason Holley: Hi. Thank you. Great to be with you.
Alejo: Yeah, nice to have you here. Now before we move into the Libra season, I would like to mention once again as I usually do, that if you like the podcast, the best thing you can do to support us is to share it. We would also love to hear your feedback, so if you want to share your thoughts or your reflections, my Instagram is @liminalcosmos. And you can also email Astrology University, the email address is [email protected]. So when I think of Libra, I usually think of this idea of balance. For some reason, this time when preparing the podcast I was thinking of Maat, the daughter of Ra in Egyptian mythology. And she represents the cosmic balance and the idea of justice. So her symbol is the ostrich feather that was used to measure the weight of souls. So when a person died, they would measure the weight of their soul or their heart, as I heard, and they wanted to see if it was lighter than the than the feather. I like this idea because I like the idea of balance that Libra brings, but I also like this idea because it kind of reminds me that we’re getting closer to Scorpio, which is about death and transformation and transcendence. Because in th northern hemisphere we are changing seasons, we’re going into autumn, which is the moment in which we’re going to see nature start dying. So after the exuberance of the summer and the Sun in Leo and all of this, there’s this sense of, okay, now we need to balance a little bit the energy. I don’t know, what images do you get when you think of Libra?
Jason: Thinking of the image you’re sharing, when I think of Libra I think so much about an attenuation to the environment and a sort of watching all of the vectors of force. All the vectors of different trajectories of different things. That there’s kind of always a watching of all of that and an attempt to understand what are all the things affecting a situation. It’s so profoundly relational. And I think also about those scales of Maat in the sense too about value. That scales are often used to determine value. You put the object on one side or the gold on the other, or you weigh something. And I like what you just said about the preparation for Scorpio. Even just thinking about the constellation, that it’s the newest one of the 12. At least in the Greco Roman, you know, they only started to see the scales for a while. And before the scales were the claws of the Scorpion. And so it does feel like it is a preparation for something and a chance to take all that exuberance of summer and sort of say, okay, what is meaningful here? What has value? What can carry on into the deeper dive? So I do relate to that one. The other person who comes to mind is Themis, who was one of the goddesses of justice in the Greek world. And I’ve always thought of her because on the one hand she was the goddess of divine justice. So there was there was Dike who was, I think of more as the Virgo and person holding the scales, but Themis, she was one who was concerned with the ideals of justice. And when I think about ideals with Libra, there’s always this emphasis on, how does the current situation connect to the ideals behind it? Kind of a platonic orientation.
Alejo: Yeah. So it’s a good time to reassess that perhaps. To think about how our life is actually being attuned to our values. And what might need to be transformed in the following season.
Jason: Yeah, exactly.
Alejo: Nice. Thank you. So we usually choose a classic Libra to share. And who would you like to choose?
Jason: Well, the one who comes to mind for me really strongly is Mohandas Gandhi, or often called Mahatma Gandhi, which means great soul. And you know, Gandhi was both a Libra Sun and also a Libra rising. So you know, double Libra. And whenever I think about Gandhian principles, so many of them feel like Libran principles. So for instance, in his approach, one of the most basic things was nonviolent, passive resistance. So he managed to free India from the biggest empire that ever was in the world. But he did it in this way that was not about fighting and active attack and that kind of thing, but was about passive resistance, non cooperation. It wasn’t aggression. It was meeting aggression with non-violence. The principle of ahimsa, you know, no harm. And then many other of his ways as well. There was the satyagraha, which graha some people will know is the Vedic word for planets. It means to grasp. And satyagraha means to be grasped by the truth. And to have these sort of ideals that you’re holding fast to, is actually, I think, very Libran. Because it’s a cardinal sign, right? But the way that it accomplishes its goal, it’s quite directed, and yet the way that it accomplishes it is does not often look very directed.
Alejo: Yes, I was thinking exactly about that when you were sharing this thing about Gandhi, that it reminds us that Libra is a cardinal sign. Because there is this kind of, in Instagram or Tik Tok, there is this trend to see Libra as the indecisive sign. And I’m not sure if it’s the best description for Libra, because it is a cardinal sign.
Jason: Right. And when I have worked with the mythology of Libra, I often feel like they’re kind of, you know, of course we always speak in polarity, Aries to Libra and so on. But within Libra, I think there’s a polarity inside the sign in that there’s a mode of the sign that is about accommodation, getting along with. Libra is associated with fashion, which of course is very much a matter of attuning to the moment of the times and looking at becoming the paradigm of beauty of that moment, and accommodating. Fashion is quite accommodating of the gestalt. But then there’s also the Libra that is very sensitive to the world around them but then tweaks it. A lot of activists have strong Libra because they can see the way things are arranged and they can accommodate. But they can also move one thing and it changes the whole thing. And Gandhi was like this. The Salt March was one of the famous things. They marched against the British commoditizing salt. And all these moments that were just the right thing to do to galvanize the people. It’s seemingly a small thing and yet becomes a symbolic expression. So I agree with you. I sometimes think about it in the constellational way where there’s the claw kind of Libra and Scorpio that tries to change things, and then there’s the balance that tries to keep the status quo. And you’ll often see Librans jump back and forth. They’re very accommodating and then suddenly, you know. Or doing it subtly. Themis is one of my favorite figures for this because, in the Kypria, one of the kind of the Homeric epics besides the Iliad and the Odyssey, there was another that we just have the fragments of. And actually the Trojan War, which Eris started by throwing the apple into the party that she wasn’t invited to, and then that created the envy of the goddesses which led to the Trojan War. But actually, in the Kyrpia, Zeus and Themis have a conversation where Themis is the one who plants the idea in Eris’s mind by saying to her, ‘oh, darling,’ you know, very Libran, ‘oh, honey, weren’t you invited to the party?’ It’s so Libra. It’s so indirect, but she knows that what will happen is that Eris will get angry knowing she wasn’t invited to the party. So that’s classic Libra, right? Like starting a fight without looking like you started it.
Alejo: Exactly. I didn’t do anything, it was all her, I didn’t do anything.
Jason: Yeah. So that ability to act is underestimated with Libra because it’s very pretty and smiling and it makes you feel good.
Alejo: Nice. So my classic example of Libra this time, I’m Argentinian so I went to an Argentinian singer. He’s called Charlie Garcia. And he was born on the 23rd of October. So at the very end of Libra in 1951 in Buenos Aires at 11:20am. I’m saying this in case somebody wants to see the chart. And I actually, this is why I chose him because he was a musician in the period where we had the dictatorship. And he was really fighting everything that was happening. He was one of the people who dared to fight everything that was happening. So it’s interesting because when we think of Libra, we usually think of the idea of harmonizing and balance. And you’re seeing in his nature, you see a very combative nature. A person who is fighting. And I think he was trying to bring the balance. He was trying to provoke and to bring a balance that had been completely gone, of course, with the dictatorship. So I have some quotes from him. And so on the idea of balance and paradox, perhaps, he said, “God is a counter-clerk.” So he gives in order to get. So this idea that life is balance. You cannot have it both ways. He gives a he gets. And then: “Real love is like sleeping and being awake.” Kind of trying to keep both polarities at the same time all the time. He said, “Lyrics is a complement of music.” So the idea that you need both things to the music. And the one I liked the most, the one on peace, he says, “If we all take the idea together that freedom is not a fight, all the roles will be changed and many more barracks would be empty.”
Jason: Oh beautiful.
Alejo: Freedom is not a fight. It also reminds me a little bit of Ghandi, right, what you were saying before.
Jason: So much of what you said. Even thinking about the giving and the getting. Gandhi was very connected to the Bhagavad Gita, which was about action without attachment, which for me is very Libran. But also is one of the deepest principles as karma in Gandhi’s philosophy and in the larger Indian philosophy. But it’s, you know, the action-reaction. Whatever you do will generate something else which will generate something else. And for me, that’s quite Libran. And listening to the way that he described God, it feels very similar, really of a kind. And again, in attending to the way that things move, the way that the world of forces interacts.
Alejo: Yeah, it’s like this game, how do you call it an English? This game that you play as a kid that you go to one extreme of the…
Jason: A seesaw. We call it a seesaw.
Alejo: Yeah, exactly. You know, one goes up, the other one goes down. Yeah, it’s very Libra. Okay. Nice. So then we usually try to come up with some ideas on things we can do on the season. We can choose serious things or funny things. Usually I come up with the little silly, funny things. But this time I came up with some more serious thoughts. I was thinking, with this idea of Libra and the importance of relationships, the importance of balance, the other concept that came to my mind is the idea of projection. How we see ourselves, how we discover who we are by paying attention to the people we meet and what they trigger in us. So I was thinking maybe it’s a good thing to do in during Libra season, to think about your projections. To look at the people that surround you and to try to see what you see in them. Because maybe some things of what you’re seeing in them are part of who you are, actually, and that’s why you’re joining them. And I also thought you could do this game which is to ask close friends, people who you trust, to describe three of your best qualities. It’s a very interesting thing, I don’t know if you’ve ever done it. It’s very interesting to see what people describe of oneself. Because the idea of Libra that I discover who I am through connecting to other people, right? So I was thinking about this idea and I thought, okay, if we ask our close friends to describe us, and then to be aware of how does this description feels. If we agree with it, if we don’t agree, if it feels nice, if it feels uncomfortable. I think we can discover a lot about who we are.
Jason: Yeah, I agree. You’re reminding me there was an exercise, I think it was the Harvard Business School actually that created it, called the ‘reflected best self’ exercise. And what you did was you chose like 20 people in your life from different areas, like co workers, family members, friends, and you said to them, please describe three moments where you saw me at my best. Like concrete scenarios. And then tell me, what about that was the active ingredient that you saw in me? And you would give this to people in leadership roles and have them do that and then sort of work out, how am I showing up in the world of others? And I think it’s a very Libran exercise for sure. When you were speaking also, I was thinking about in the therapy land (I’m also therapist), that one of the biggest shifts in the field has been with Pluto in Libra people. I’m a Pluto in Libra person. Where the model of analysis where the therapist is kind of over here and the patient is over here, and it’s sort of held to be a vacuum. You know, it’s all about this patient’s psyche. And there’s been a huge move in relational psychoanalysis, interpersonal psychodynamics, where it’s really acknowledged that both people are fully in the room and are both pulling each other into the relational field. And it’s this idea that the psyche is inherently relationalized. That it’s not just about projection and transference, but actually we delegate to each other aspects of self that we are not yet ready to hold. And then we reclaim them. But the therapist is doing it too. They really equalize the dyad so that the power is not concentrated. The therapist is somehow independent of the relational field, but actually really insisting the whole encounter is relational and both people are constructing each other. It’s very Libran. And the Pluto in Libra group has brought that in even with interpersonal neurobiology where they speak about mirrored neurons, where if I were to bite a lemon right now, you would start to salivate. Even sometimes when you say it, the other person starts to salivate. You know, because we track each other. It’s been a remarkable shift. It’s like understanding that relationship is actually possibly more the point than the so-called fixed entities doing the relating. That it’s actually the relating that is the the flow of relations. If that makes sense. Yeah. So I think that’s a great exercise for people to do because it reminds us of our of our relatedness, which in Libra season will be a good learning to do that.
Alejo: And as astrologers, because maybe if you are a therapist you see people for long term, but as astrologers we usually meet them once or twice. So it’s also interesting because we can reflect on the type of clients we attract the types of problems they bring. And also it’s interesting how, to me at least, how it changes based on my transits and progressions. How some themes start to come up in certain periods, and some others they go away. It’s amazing.
Jason: I find that for sure. And again, for me too in a relational practice, even in the one session situation, you can feel how you are drawn into the myths of the other person. You can feel how they assign you their Saturn or they assign you their Venus, or you know. And that actually becomes a thing that can be reflected on. Not necessarily by saying so, but you feel it, you realize, oh, I’m being induced into this person’s chart. And that is often for me the most poignant moment in consultation when I can feel myself in the chart and then I can pull out of it a little bit and speak of it. Not necessarily speak about how I was pulled in, but it gives me something, you know, Libra draws attention. And that would be the question is, how are you implicated in the world of others? It’s a constant way of thinking about things. What are you being induced into? And what are others inducing you into? What roles are you in with each other? It can be very rich. But it can also be a hall of mirrors. That’s the Libra. You can get so preoccupied with how you are in the world of others that you lose that centre, that Aries ‘I am.’ It’s hard to find in Libra consciousness because you’re out there so much.
Alejo: Yeah, it’s true. Did you come up with any other things to do?
Jason: I’m in Paris right now, which is not where I live. And so of course, I’m visiting many museums and that comes to mind. For me, art is so very much a Libran way. And beauty and aesthetics. Taking a little more attention to appearance. Not so much about trying to look a particular way, but seeing what feels beautiful to you. And the other would be the environment. It’s a great time for interior redecoration. Or even taking like a glass and saying, where would I sit it on this table that feels the most pleasing aesthetically? That’s a perfect little Libra moment. I just did that. I was like, hey, you know, this looks better here. And the French are, I think, quite attenuated to these small details. Rumi, I often think of with Libra. He has this one line, “Who could bring me this cup of wine as you do so perfectly?” That’s the reaction you’re supposed to have to a Rumi line like that.
Alejo: I mean, but in some ways it’s true, I think. I think it has been proven that if you are in a pleasant environment, your health, your psychic state, will be enhanced, will be better.
Jason: Yes. And Libra is just so aware of that. Libra energy is so attenuated to lighting, you know. Even experimenting with lighting. Like closing the shade, closing shutters, or dimming lights and playing with shadow. All of those things are very Libran. Even seeing the shape around things rather than the shape of the thing. The negative space, the sculptors would say. Or looking at Trompe-l’œil, tricks of the eye, like M.C. Escher or some of these artists. All of that can just shift consciousness into Libra. So I don’t know that it’s so much about doing a thing. But if you want to feel Libra energy, I think those are ways to invoke the archetype. Yeah.
Alejo: Yeah. Great. So it’s a great time to redecorate your house. Yes.
Jason: I think so, yeah.
Alejo: All right. Nice. So now we go to the key signatures of the season. So we try to see important transits or important moments that we might think something important is going on. So the first thing, of course, is the Sun goes into Libra on the 23rd at 6:50am GMT time, according to my ephemeris. And, I don’t know, I would say first of all this is a moment in which, I mean, it’s an important moment because the Sun goes back into a cardinal sign. So there is a change in the air, there’s something new that’s starting. And it’s like half of the year has passed. If we take the year as starting in March when the Sun goes into Aries, it’s like half of the year has passed. Like we were saying before, we come from the summer in which there was so much light if you’re in the northern hemisphere. If you’re in the southern hemisphere, it’s a different experience. But the Libra moment in some ways, it’s similar in the sense that you are coming from all the darkness. And suddenly, the idea that the light and the dark starts to be more balanced. You could take this idea that good and evil starts to be more balanced, or outer energy, inner energy, anything you want to put in there. I do feel like in the southern hemisphere, there is a sense of, maybe coming from Argentina, the entrance of the Sun in Libra, I do feel that it’s kind of a moment of justice in the sense that the dark winter is on trial now and it finally lost. And the forces of good light are coming back and we’re gonna have summer. But in the northern hemisphere, it’s more like, okay, the summer is ending and there’s this sense of balance, a sense of equilibrium. Because the day and the night are exactly the same when the Sun goes into Libra. So finally we have this sense of, perhaps, reassessment of everything that’s been going on through the year. I also find it interesting because in the southern hemisphere, the scholarly year starts in March. So it starts in Aries. So it’s very meaningful that it starts in Aries. And here instead, it starts now with Libra. And I have the feeling that it starts in Libra because it’s like, okay, we’ve had fun, now it’s time to rebalance that.
Jason: Yeah. You know, if we think about day and night, which were so important to the ancients in thinking about the sky. And to all of us, right? It’s the one thing in the sky that everybody tracks is whether it’s day or night. And even in a city where you can’t see the stars. To me they are modes of consciousness. The day world is about clarity and the crispness of distinctions and things getting done. And if you think of the day planets, it’s the Sun, it’s Jupiter, it’s Saturn, they make things happen in the world. And then we’re moving to night, to the dominance of night in the northern hemisphere. And so it’s this moment of transition. And in night consciousness, we can even just think about the way that things lose their distinctiveness and merge. Like the landscape all looks like one thing. You see the oneness, you see the relatedness. To me it’s a very Libran notion. And the other thing when you were speaking, it just reminded me of Jung speaking about the difference between an event and an experience. If you’ve had a summer of events, all kinds of things—go, go, go, go, go, daytime, daytime, daytime—events become experiences when you’ve had time for reflection and considering. And those are very Libran things. To pause. Kind of the way the scales pause for a moment and they usually go the other way. But the equinox for me is that pausing moment in the scales where there’s something that you have a chance to sort of see what events are worthy of experiencing. Of dropping in at that different level. I always used to do a retreat, a solo retreat, in Colorado for like a month for years. And it was always in October that I did it, partly because the colors of fall leaves were very beautiful. Beauty. But also it felt like a time to do just what you’re saying. To calm oneself. I think it’s kind of a natural thing that things start to slow down. We don’t really do that nowadays, everybody just keeps moving the whole time. And then they get very excited at the holidays and all this. But my sense is that the natural movement is to slow down. And so Libra for me is part of that different mode of consciousness in a way. And Libra planets, they sort of seek that.
Alejo: Yeah, I do think that maybe we want to slow down when we come back from the holidays. And we feel like we have to work.
Jason: You have to keep going. It’s always go, go go. And that’s the difference between a linear worldview and a cyclical worldview. If it’s linear then it never stops. Progress, progress progress, in no cyclical way. So the equinoxes particularly remind me of the inflection points. Some people say that the person holding the scales in the sky was one of the Horae, the goddesses of the seasons. And so there is that cyclical consciousness that’s invited with Libra, I think. Yeah. On some of these things were just coming in the moment, but I am feeling invited by our conversation to that space.
Alejo: Yeah. Of course, yes. And so when when the Sun is going into Libra, something interesting is happening in the sky. We were kind of trying to see what we found. And one of the things we found is that Mars is in Libra also. So he’s going to be opposing Chiron in Aries. And this has been happening for a while now. So it depends a little bit on the orbs that you use, but if you use the orbs that I use, which is 8 degrees for the oppositions, you’re going to find that it started on the 13th of September. So it’s been going on for a while and it will actually be active until the 5th of October. And we both we both found this an interesting aspect. How would you see this?
Jason: Well, for me, Mars in Libra, Chiron in Aries, each on their own speak of difficulties with assertion or finding the right way. Right isn’t even the right word. But finding ways that work for one to assert oneself. Mars has this natural desire to do that and yet in Libra is somewhat confounded. It’s so immediately aware of how it might affect the other person that it kind of undermines the ability to just say, this is what I want or this is what I’m about. And so a lot of times with Mars in Libra you find it brings forward passive aggressive energy in the field. And a difficulty with owning ‘this is what I want, this is my position.’ And Chiron in Aries, of course, speaks to a wounding to that capacity as well. And so, them being in opposition though, to me, opposition is maximum sight of one another, right? It’s like a full moon is an opposition, and they see each other. They look at each other very directly. And so I think it’s a real chance to illuminate the patterns like that. And to really own one’s own aggression. And not just aggression but also then vitality. There’s a claiming of vitality that comes forward. But I think it often happens by those awkward encounters, those moments of conflict. And it’s a question of really not making conflict wrong. Actually considering that this is part of it. We need it to see each other in some way. And so those are the kinds of things that are our forward with this opposition. You know, for me, I’m having my Chiron return. My Chiron is in Aries, that will happen five times, and I’m on the second one. And I am in a process of trying to step forward a little more in different ways in my life. And it’s quite difficult, actually. And there’s a desire with Chiron to just stay in the cave and tell people, you know, come and find me, I’m not going out there. And yet, it wants to happen. There’s something that erupts and wants to come forward. I have this experience on my face, I keep getting these boils on my face. They’re rising, they’re really big and inflamed. And it’s like something wants to come out, wants to be forward. And I think the symptom is a symbol for me. I mean, I wouldn’t reduce it to that, it’s more complex. But that is what speaks to me in the moment speaking about Chiron and Aries. It’s like something wants to come forward. So I think there’s a lot of passion, vitality, life force with this aspect.
Alejo: Yeah. And I was thinking when you were talking about this, Chiron in Aries has been there for a while now. So I think that we’ve been experiencing this sense of not being entitled to express our aggression, perhaps. Or not necessarily our aggression, but fully express what we want or our desires. And the sense of not finding the… Right is not the correct word, but not finding the way that feels right to express what we have to express; to defend what we feel we have to defend, right?
Jason: Yes. Protection.
Alejo: And perhaps a sense of frustration has been building up. Sometimes you go in the streets and you feel the sense of a hidden aggressiveness that’s kind of building up inside and then out of the blue for a tiny little thing, people go crazy. And I think with this Mars in Libra picking this up, I would say maybe these are a few weeks in which we we want to connect with this energy, this vitality as you said, but we are struggling to find a way to do it
Jason: Yes. And so I think that’s where the opposition invites conscious reflection on it. What I might wonder about during this kind of time is really considering, where am I holding back? Or where am I not acknowledging what I want, what I desire? And how might I claim that in a way that works? Because it’s so much life force. You know, when Martian or Aries energy is suppressed, you’re losing so much life force. And trying to please and trying to make it all work out. And like you said, then also having intermittent explosions. And then back to that, so I appreciate the context you just offered of like, you know, Chiron in Aries has been going on for quite a while, but this Mars races through and trigger point. B I think it’s a trigger point for awareness, potentially. And therefore, ultimately, the question I think, the thing that it leads to is saying, what do I really want? Which again, it’s a hard question for Libra but a very easy question for Mars.
Alejo: Yeah, and I think it’s interesting how sometimes we actually move through life and we’re not aware of what we want. I’m also therapist and I see it a lot when working with clients when you ask them, okay, but what is it that you really want? Well, if you could do anything you want, what would you do? And a lot of times people don’t know.
Jason: Exactly. Or you’re doing sex therapy with a couple, and almost always, they come in thinking something’s wrong because, you know, I know what other people would want or in other marriages they’re having a lot of sex or they’re not. But then you say, well, what do you want? And they go, well, I think I’m supposed to want this. People know a lot about what they’re supposed to want. But yeah, exactly. There’s a tendency not to really be in touch with like, what do I want in this situation? So there’s an enlightening quality to the opposition, potentially, if you can hold the tension of opposites. If you can hold the complexity and the conflicts, it has a chance to claim and see something that is otherwise really hard to see. And I think that’s invited by this. But I wouldn’t soft pedal it. It’s a hard one I think.
Alejo: It’s really hard, yes. And I was thinking now that the nodes changed recently, we were mentioning this before we started recording, that the nodes had recently changed to Libra-Aries. So it’s like we are starting a journey of thinking about this for a while, not just for these days. And I think this also takes us to our next key point, because on the 29th of September we have Venus squaring Uranus. And I’m thinking because of this idea that you were saying of, okay, I know what I’m supposed to want, but what I really want. So Venus has been in Leo and she has been retrograding. So she touched Uranus on the third of July. So the square, I mean, has perfected on the 3rd of July, on the ninth of August, and now it’s perfecting again on 29th of September. So I’m saying these dates because, again, like you were saying about events and experiences, right? There might have been events happening around these days, and perhaps now it’s going to be a time when on the last hit, we can kind of wrap up and find what brings them together. So Venus in Leo squaring Uranus. I think it is speaking a little bit of what is it that I desire? Because Venus is in Leo. Can I be proud of what I find attractive? Of what I what I feel gives me pleasure? And how that may challenge Uranus in Taurus. How that might challenge what I’m supposed to be doing.
Jason: Yeah. And you know, Uranus and Venus is so often associated with unauthorized desires. Unauthorized attractions. Unauthorized passions. And it encourages us to recognize those. To see them, to experience them, to grow through them. For me, it’s potentially embodying of the heart. If you think of Taurus and Leo, it’s sort of letting yourself know what you want. And it reminds me of the Mary Oliver line: “Let the soft animal of your body love what it loves.” To me there’s heart opening with Uranus squaring Venus and Leo. Especially when we think about Venus has had this journey, and I guess she has had her heliacal rise before this Libra season, but she’s been through something. And I almost think that the remaining Uranus squares to Venus in the sky, it’s heart opening. It’s sort of like letting something come forward that has not been forward. You know, again, it almost always would feel unauthorized because it looks like that.
Alejo: Unauthorized. And I will also say, because they’re both in fixed signs, so I would say that Venus in Leo wants to trust that whatever she’s feeling she’s going to keep it. And I think a square to Uranus brings this sense of uncertainty. The sense that these that I hold precious, which is Venus in Leo, and that I can actually find something very deep about who I am in this sense that I’m finding, might not always be there. I think Uranus in Taurus is kind of reminding us that even Taurus, which is the fixed sign of the earth signs, so it’s like the most fixed you can get, even that can be shaken, right? So I love this image that you said of opening your heart, and how hard it is for Venus in Leo to open the heart when the the feeling might be that, I don’t know what I’m going to meet there. I don’t know if something is going to be there to hold it. I have the image of Uranus like the sky. I don’t know if something is going to hold my heart if I put it out there; if it’s going to fall into an emptiness.
Jason: Yeah. I’m feeling the tenderness of that when you were speaking. I can just feel my own heart that is tenderly longing for something. Yes, in the atmosphere of uncertainty that Uranus always brings. But it actually makes it very poignant to think about: what would it be to keep the heart open amidst that?
Alejo: Yeah. Because that would allow, I mean, of course we are intellectualizing and to experience it is different, but if we can do it, you would allow a level of creativity and perhaps a way of loving with Venus, I would say. A way of loving that has no previous model, that it’s completely new. But how hard it is.
Jason: Yeah. That’s beautiful. Yes, exactly. I love the way you said that, because that feels very important. That in some sense there’s a trajectory, a direction, of being able to do it in a way one has never done; to love in a way one hasn’t loved. It’s like the shifting of the relational template is possible. Although it’s intellectual, I have to say I’m feeling it as we speak. I can feel my heart’s excitement at that notion. And in the moment, I feel like, Yes, I’ll take the risk. But who know when the aspect hits, hard to say. But in this moment, I’m like, Oh, there’s an electrical quality. And there’s Uranus, right?
Alejo: Yeah, we try to put it in words. I also speak from my heart, right. So yeah, and it’s interesting because even if I jump ahead a little bit, we’re going go back, but even if we jump ahead a little bit, we were saying that a little bit later Venus will enter Virgo and will oppose Saturn. So on the 9th of October, Venus will enter Virgo and oppose Saturn. So maybe there is this message of, okay, if you jump, I jump. If you jump with this Venus square Uranus, Venus will enter Virgo so things will be able to be organized. And I mean, there will be something to sustain it. The idea of Virgo being an earth sign, that there is a fertile ground from where to build. But because it’s opposing Saturn, I don’t know, it could mean that something might mature. A new way of loving might be able to mature and take shape. It could also be, of course, that there might be a sense of frustration. Like a sense of the risk to take may imply a huge level of maturity, of personal maturity. When you say the idea Venus in Virgo being self contained in the way they love. So like a huge level of being very mature, of I’m very aware what it takes to love.
Jason: Yeah, it’s really interesting while you’re speaking, I find myself thinking about the Psyche and Eros. And in the earlier part when we were speaking of Venus in Leo and Uranus and the kind of, you know, Psyche and Eros and their passion and their love, and then you were speaking of the the maturational demands of Virgo and the Saturn opposition and the labors that Psyche has to go through. They’re very Virgoan. And Gray Crawford once did a talk on Venus in Virgo and the Psyche and Eros story. It’s reminding me of that as you’re speaking. That she has to do all these things, like separate all the grains and the ants come and help her. But what I think is so interesting, thinking about what this aspect, in every case she has these three labors and all of them are kind of impossible to do, and so she kind of gives up each time and then someone comes to the rescue. The ants come and help her separate the grains, the eagle of Jupiter comes and advises her on how to collect wool from these vicious golden rams. And that makes me think of Saturn in Pisces. That she has to keep giving up. She has to keep feeling that ‘I can’t do it, I can’t go on.’ And then life comes to the rescue. And maybe that’s an overly optimistic way of thinking this, but it is what I see in it. There is a coming down from the Venus-Uranus, Venus in Leo the opening of the heart. There is a kind of coming down, but it’s also another level of surrender. It becomes possible. And it matures you. Psyche and Eros began with kind of an undifferentiated love and by the end of the tale, Psyche has gone through a whole process and you could say that they meet in a place of greater consciousness when they are reunited and married. And psyche has been forced to individuate. It all begins right when she shines a light on Eros and doesn’t just want to stay in the unconsciousness of infatuation. So I sort of see that journey as we’re speaking about it.
Alejo: Yeah, nice. So on the same day, on the 29th of September, we have this minor grand trine going on, which is Pluto in Capricorn trining Uranus in Taurus, and they’re both sextile Neptune in Pisces. How would you take it before I started talking?
Jason: I think one of the ways that I might think about it is the possibility of the earth signs kind of grounding the vision that the Neptune in Pisces holds. And then thinking of the Mercury coming in that really potentially helps to do that. Yeah. I mean, that’s what comes to my mind is a time to ground one’s visions. Yeah. I’m actually I feel that as we speak.
Alejo: So because Mercury is going into Virgo it’s going to be opposing Neptune, so it’s going to create this kite. I have a similar feeling that Pluto and Uranus are trying to change reality, because it’s one of the key words, in order to bring this vision, like you were saying with Neptune. And finally comes Mercury. So there might be a few days where it may be a good time to think and reflect. And because it’s Virgo, I would say to organize. To take the first real steps into creating our visions.
Jason: Yeah. And taking it in. The story that comes to my mind in this moment is in the Odyssey, which for me is the ultimate Neptune teaching. I actually just did a thing for Astrology University on Neptune. But in the Odyssey, it’s Neptune who keeps him wandering in the sea for 10 years. But then there’s an encounter that they have. In the underworld, they meet the blind Prophet Tiresias. And he basically says to Odysseus, here’s what’s going to happen for the rest of the journey and here’s the thing you have to do when you get back from all these Neptune wanderings in the deep unconscious. He doesn’t say the deep conscious. But you know, all this Neptune stuff you’ve been doing, all these big visions and experiences, and he says, what you have to do when you get back to Ithaca, you must take an oar from your ship and you have to walk it all the way into a land where when people see it, they don’t even know what an oar is. They’re so far in the land that they think it’s an agricultural implement. And he says, once you’ve reached a place like that, you have to plant that oar into the ground. And I’ve always felt that’s just what you were describing of like, you have this incredible Neptunian thing but you must you must bring it to the world, you must bring it in and concretize it and share it. Bring the seeds to the to the land. And it just comes into my mind when you speak of Mercury in Virgo. It’s like, you know, really going in there and doing it.
Alejo: Yeah, great. And we get to the full moon which is also on the 29th of September, so everything is happening on this day.
Jason: It’s my solar return by the way. This is helpful, very helpful.
Alejo: You have a fantastic year ahead. So we have the sun and moon opposing each other. Moon in Aries, sun in Libra at 6 degrees. So if you have anything at six degrees of cardinals signs, but I would emphasize more like Aries and Libra, it might be very important for the moon. And I don’t know, I’m looking at the chart of the full moon and I’m thinking a little bit of what we spoke before. So Mars is in Libra and he’s the dispositor of the moon. So there’s this desire with the moon in Aries, this need I would say, to express ourselves. But with the sun in Libra, the goal is to be civilized and kind and nice and careful with each other. But then Venus is in Leo. So it’s like, I am important. So I feel again it’s this tension being played out between my own desires and trying to respect who I am and what I want, and this idealized version, this idea that we should keep harmony and balance and how to navigate the paradox, I would say.
Jason: Yeah, I think these Libra-Aries full moons, they they really do call the Aries-Libra polarity out. And for me, the question with Aries-Libra is almost always, how do I be true to myself and related to others at the same time? And usually we treat that as if it’s in conflict. That I can either be true to myself or I can be connected to others and I have to choose one. An Aries chooses true to self and Libra chooses connected. But really, in a sense, you can’t be connected to others unless you are true to yourself. And you can’t really know who you are unless you know who others are because they’re other than you. So I think it almost always a highlights this thing of, how can I be both? Related and connected. Connected to self and connected to others.
Alejo: Yeah, exactly. I’m thinking the Jungian idea of individuation, that it happens in relationship. It can’t happen if you’re isolated to the world. It only happens if you relate to other people. So yeah. On the 5th of October we have Mercury going into Libra. So we’re adding more more Libra elements. And okay, we talked about this Venus going into Virgo opposing Saturn. And on the 11th of October, we have Pluto stationing direct at 27 Capricorn. On the 2nd of May it went retrograde. So on the 2nd of May it went into Aquarius and then it went retrograde in Capricorn, and now it’s going to station there. And it’s going to start moving direct again. So if you have anything at 27 Capricorn, or I would say 27 of cardinal signs, it might be a triggering point. I mean, probably you’re going through a long process of changes because it has been there for a while. And we were saying before recording, it might be a moment to kind of reflect a little bit on what’s happening. And then we get to the new moon on the 14th of October. And we have a bunch of things in Libra. We have Mercury, the moon and the sun are at 21 degrees. And we have the south node.
Jason: So this is a solar eclipse. And a Solar Eclipse in Libra. So, for me, those are so often moments of potentially really losing oneself for a little while. And then the question is often about, how do I regain myself? And maybe it’s unnecessary losing of self. It’s unnecessary losing, like something releasing by doing that. And then coming back in a whole different way. Eclipses are such interesting moments, right? They’re moments where if you’re under them, they’re a moment when night comes in to day. The daytime sky reveals that it was always just a scrim overnight. And day opens up and night comes in. And so it’s like we lose that ability to organize everything. Even the birds get crazy. Everybody kind of gets incoherent. And yet something is often allowed to be released. If it’s at the south node, I think it’s often something gets to be released in that way. And then come back together in a different way. And when in Libra, I think it tends to be in relationship contexts. There’s something that comes to a head, becomes much more obvious or louder in some way. Or new relationships, whatever it might be. A lot could open up with that.
Alejo: Yeah, very powerful. I’m feeling what you’re saying with that. And I was thinking this eclipse is picking up the Chiron in Aries.
Jason: It is, isn’t it? Yeah. You’re right. Oh boy.
Alejo: So it’s like the theme is coming back over and over again. And perhaps the idea of accepting our vulnerability. Accepting how hard it is to be able to do both Aries and Libra. And I’m thinking, yeah, I love your idea of letting go. Letting go of the idea of what relating to others should be with Libra. Then on the 28th, we have the Sun conjunct Mercury. I always like to mention when Mercury goes cazimi. Especially when Mercury is direct. This sense of a new cycle starting. So I’m jumping ahead, but this could be a good day if you have to write or if you have to reflect, if you want to start a journal. Everything that has to do with Mercury, it could be a good day. And then on the 23rd, the Sun goes into Scorpio so we’re going to have another podcast for that one. But I will wrap up this idea of the season with the sense of how to balance, how to respect my desires and respect others. Yes. Then we usually have a short section where we talk a little bit about good dates, fortunate dates. So I picked up on the 25th of September, Mercury’s going to be trining Jupiter, both in earth signs. So I think if you are planning to study something, if you want to publish something, if you want to, I don’t know, everything that has to do with Jupiter and Mercury, it might be a good day. Because they’re both in earth signs, so there is this kind of realistic approach to your visions or whatever you want to communicate or to do. Then there is on the 5th of October, the moon in Cancer is going to be trining Saturn in Pisces and Mars in Libra. So it’s kind of a weird aspect because Mars is in Libra. But I think it could be a good moment, with this idea of Mars in Libra and in this case it’s going to be touching Saturn in Pisces, so it’s again this idea of maturing, grounding our drives. And with the moon in Cancer, how we can nurture that. So maybe this is a good period also to reflect perhaps more in your inner world. And how your inner world, your inner emotions, your feelings, and how that may be having an impact on your relationships with others. And then from the 11th to the 13th of October, we have a grand trine in Earth. So basically, the Uranus-Pluto trine, which is happening between Taurus and Capricorn, is going to be picked up by the moon in Virgo. So again, I think there’s this idea of grounding a vision. So if you want to do things, if you want to something that is going to have real, effective, measurable results, maybe it’s a good day to think about that. Or just to organize. What changes you want to do to achieve what you want to achieve?
Jason: Yeah. There’s a manifestation quality with Earth. Like making real, making things real, bringing things into the world that comes to mind with that one for me.
Alejo: And we usually come up with the key takeaway or mantra. And mine would be: “Balance is kept in motion. I act in order to harmonize.” So this idea of being able to act in order to bring balance, but it’s kind of soft action. And I like the idea of balance in motion. If we look at nature, the way that nature keeps balance is by change. So I like this idea of bringing change in order to harmonize. What could you come up with if you had to come up with a mantra after everything we spoke about?
Jason: I’m very taken still with having a heart remain open amid all of this. So the notion of the heart wide open to myself and others. That’s kind of where I find myself with it. Yeah. That sounds like a mantra, right?
Alejo: Yeah. It sounds like a mantra: “Keep your heart open.” It could be a mantra. My heart is open. Nice. And then we usually always ask you what you’re reading because usually people are reading something. They’re all curious to know.
Jason: Well, it’s interesting. I was thinking with all these retrogrades this summer that have been going on, and even particularly the Venus retrograde, I’ve been rereading. Which is not very often for me to reread, except for myth. I often do that. So the things I’ve been rereading that are really forward for me, one is bell hooks’ book called All About Love. I’m doing a retreat on astrology and love later, and so I’ve really been revisiting that. It’s a beautiful book. The premise of the book, to me, it’s very Libra, it’s very Venus. The premise of this is that, you know, we’re very shy to talk about love. One of the examples that she offers is just even something like, why does a government build roads? And it’s usually defined in terms of commerce and industry and, developing and all of that. But isn’t it also for love? Isn’t that why we do things? Love is behind everything we do in some sense. And then it’s a very practical book about love. And then in the astrology world, I’ve been rereading Geoffrey Cornelius’s book The Moment of Astrology, which is an incredible book and takes something just stay in it. But it so speaks to me of my experience of the symbols of astrology of how they morph and shift according to the moment and of the encounter, and don’t correspond always to the rules of the discipline. And I’m really grateful that that book is in our shared collections.
Alejo: It’s my favorite book.
Jason: Oh, is it? That’s great.
Alejo: Yeah, I think it’s amazing. Now, I’m reading Star Crossed by Clare Martin, which is actually about relationships. But to be honest, I cannot comment too much because I’ve just started it. I think she goes through the different axis of the zodiac and how relationships are established depending on which axis you’re stepping into. And so, Jason, if somebody wants to reach you or if you want to share if you have any special events coming up?
Jason: Yeah, the best way to reach me is my website which is jasonholley.net, or my email which is [email protected]. I’m going to be doing a reading group on the Odyssey actually, where we will read we’ll meet for eight weeks online together and read chapters of the Odyssey each week and share about it. And I do a lot with experiential process so we’ll be making art, we’ll be having conversations, reading different interpretations, and kind of amplifying astrological archetypes because there’s so many you encounter. But it’s a way to really get connected to the source. You know, in astrology, a lot of times people just have the Jungian interpretation of myth or the astrologer interpretation or rationalization of myth. And this is a way to swim in the sea of the story itself. And it’s an amazing tale. It’s one of the few books I do reread all the time. And then I have ongoing experiential astrology courses online that people can find out about there. And retreats, we’re doing a tour in Greece next year. There’s a lot there. So that’s the basic notion.
Alejo: Great, thank you. If you’re interested in doing anything with Astrology University, on September the 30th Gianni Di Poce is going to be doing a webinar on financial markets. It’s called Can Financial Markets Overcome Jupiter Conjunct Uranus, which is happening in 2024. Good luck, everyone. You know, I really want to go to this one actually. And on October 7th, 2023, Alexander Von Schlieffen, and I’m not sure how we pronounce his last name, he’s going to be doing this webinar which I find very interesting, it’s about the 12th and the 1st house. So it’s called From the 12th to the First House: the Hidden and the Obvious. If you want to get in touch with me, you know my Instagram is @liminalcosmos. My email address is meetme@liminalcosmos. And then on the 14th of October, I’m going to be giving a talk called Astrology of Hope at the astrological association of Great Britain. It’s a conference of the astrology association of Great Britain. All right, Jason, thank you so much for connecting from Paris, the city of art and beauty. So fantastic. Very proper for Libra. A pleasure having you here, thank you so much.
Jason: Likewise, thank you.
Alejo: Thank you everyone for listening. See you on the next one.
